Monday, August 26, 2024

Scoop: The secret debate about the Trump-Harris debate

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POLITICO Playbook

By Eugene Daniels, Rachael Bade and Ryan Lizza

Presented by 

Evernorth Health Services

With help from Eli Okun, Garrett Ross and Bethany Irvine

DRIVING THE DAY

Former President Donald Trump speaks during the final night of the Republican National Convention at Fiserv Forum in Milwaukee, Wis., July 18, 2024.

The post-Labor Day election sprint starts early this cycle — at least for Donald Trump. | Francis Chung/POLITICO

SCOOP: IS THIS THING ON? — Last night, former President DONALD TRUMP posted on Truth Social, tearing into ABC News for a "This Week" panel he disliked (which Rachael happened to be on) and asking aloud whether he will go through with his scheduled Sept. 10 debate against VP KAMALA HARRIS. 

But behind the scenes, well before he clicked the “publish” button on that post, the two campaigns hit an impasse over the rules of the debate, according to four sources familiar with the issue.

The holdup? Whether or not the candidates’ microphones will be muted when it isn’t their turn to speak.

Back when President JOE BIDEN was still running for reelection, his campaign came to an agreement with Trump’s: There would be two debates — CNN’s on June 27 and ABC’s on Sept. 10 — conducted by mutually negotiated rules. One of Biden world’s red lines — which the Trump team agreed to — was that microphones would “be muted throughout the debate except for the candidate whose turn it is to speak,” as CNN announced on June 15.

Now, the sides have flipped.

Harris’ campaign wants the mics to be hot at all times during the ABC debate, as has historically been the case at presidential debates.

“We have told ABC and other networks seeking to host a possible October debate that we believe both candidates’ mics should be live throughout the full broadcast,” BRIAN FALLON, the Harris campaign’s senior adviser for communications, told Playbook in a text message last night, confirming our reporting. “Our understanding is that Trump’s handlers prefer the muted microphone because they don’t think their candidate can act presidential for 90 minutes on his own. We suspect Trump’s team has not even told their boss about this dispute because it would be too embarrassing to admit they don’t think he can handle himself against Vice President Harris without the benefit of a mute button.”

It’s clear the veep’s team is hoping to get Trump to lose his cool on mic.

“She’s more than happy to have exchanges with him if he tries to interrupt her,” one person familiar with the negotiations tells Playbook. “And given how shook he seems by her, he’s very prone to having intemperate outbursts and … I think the campaign would want viewers to hear [that].”

For its part, the Trump campaign sees this all as a bait-and-switch. They want the ABC debate governed by the CNN rules, according to two sources.

“Enough with the games. We accepted the ABC debate under the exact same terms as the CNN debate. The Harris camp, after having already agreed to the CNN rules, asked for a seated debate, with notes, and opening statements. We said no changes to the agreed upon rules,” JASON MILLER, senior adviser for Trump, told Playbook last night. “If Kamala Harris isn’t smart enough to repeat the messaging points her handlers want her to memorize, that’s their problem. This seems to be a pattern for the Harris campaign. They won’t allow Harris to do interviews, they won’t allow her to do press conferences, and now they want to give her a cheat-sheet for the debate. My guess is that they’re looking for a way to get out of any debate with President Trump.”

There are a few points here worth noting: 

  1. The rules for the CNN debate were never agreed to by Harris’ campaign; they happened when Biden was still the candidate. 
  2. Trump himself has sought additional debates with rules different from the CNN standard, including proposing a Fox News-hosted debate on Sept. 4 with “a full arena audience,” as Trump posted on Truth Social earlier this month. (The CNN debate had no in-person audience.)
  3. In 2020, the Trump campaign wanted mics to remain on during the whole debate. “It is our understanding … that you will soon be holding an internal meeting to discuss other possible rule changes, such as granting an unnamed person the ability to shut off a candidate’s microphone,” Trump’s then-campaign manager, BILL STEPIEN, wrote to the Commission on Presidential Debates on Oct. 19, 2020. “It is completely unacceptable for anyone to wield such power. … This is reminiscent of the first debate in 2016, when the President’s microphone was oscillated, and it is not acceptable.”
  4. As for Miller’s assertion that Harris wanted a seated debate with notes, Fallon pushed back vigorously. “All three parties (Trump, Harris and ABC) have agreed to standing and no notes, and we never sought otherwise,” he said. Another source familiar with the negotiations laughed when we asked if Harris ever asked to be seated, saying it wasn’t true. 

Moreover, we are told that at the time they accepted ABC’s invitation, the Harris campaign did so while making clear to the network that the rules themselves were up for debate. And if this current snag is any indication, that debate is far from settled.

Good Monday morning. Thanks for reading Playbook. Both our Playbook Daily Briefing podcast and Playbook PM newsletter are off this week and will return on Sept. 3. Rest assured that we’ll continue to land in your inbox every morning. Drop us a line: Rachael Bade, Eugene Daniels, Ryan Lizza.

 

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TRUMP STEPS UP HIS GAME — The post-Labor Day election sprint starts early this cycle — at least for Trump.

Unusually clear-eyed about the threat Harris poses to his presidential bid, the former president is ramping up his campaign schedule, making plans to hit the trail more frequently — even, eventually, daily — from now until Election Day.

In a series of stories that posted yesterday, Trump’s inner circle seemed to acknowledge that reality is finally sinking in for the former president, who had previously dismissed his Democratic opponent as “dumb,” but has more recently envied her momentum. It also comes as his own team has predicted she’ll receive a post-convention bump — atop the positive glow in which she’s already basking.

Trump, of course, was almost certainly going to press the gas as the election neared. But “the heightened pace planned for the coming weeks goes well beyond previous preparations and is a direct response to the enthusiasm spike from Democrats,” CNN’s Alayna Treene and Steve Contorno report.

“Think Trump on steroids,” one Trump adviser told CNN. “It’ll be all hands on deck.”

This week is just a taste:

  • Today, Trump addresses the National Guard Association in Detroit.
  • Tomorrow, running mate Sen. JD VANCE (R-Ohio) hits Big Rapids, Michigan, to meet with voters in the Great Lakes State. 
  • The former president has a double-header Thursday, speaking at a Potterville, Michigan-based steel facility to talk inflation and manufacturing, then sitting for a town hall in La Crosse, Wisconsin.
  • Friday, it’s back to Pennsylvania for yet another rally — before stopping in D.C. on his way home to address Moms for Liberty.

The accelerated clip comes after Trump spent the summer engaged in a fraction of the number of rallies he headlined in 2016, spending most of his time trolling Biden from Mar-a-Lago. Even when he hit the trail, he prioritized stops in the Republican stronghold of Montana and deep blue New Jersey — puzzling plenty of Republicans fretting about more vital battleground states.

Still, it’s unclear whether all Republicans will welcome Trump’s aggressive new schedule. As our colleague JMart smartly observed on ABC’s “This Week” yesterday, “Let’s be brutally honest: If you took a survey of the Republican [Conference] on Capitol Hill and said, ‘Would you prefer Trump to play golf for the rest of the campaign and let his campaign drive the message, or have Donald Trump do events?’ We all know which they’d prefer.”

The stepped-up outreach comes as Trump is clearly fretting. See also: his recent (1) about-face embrace of popular Georgia Gov. BRIAN KEMP; (2) insistence that his administration will be “great for women and their reproductive rights,” and that he was “very proud that we are a LEADER on IVF”; (3) continued online complaining that Harris stole his “no tax on tips” proposal.

Part of Trump’s increased engagement, much to Republicans’ chagrin, apparently includes posting more frequently to his nearly 90 million followers on X. Yesterday, he spent the day tweaking Harris for once backing a fracking ban, argued that prices will “get 100 times WORSE” if Harris implements her “SOVIET Style Price Controls,” and insisted his opponent will “obliterate Social Security and Medicare by giving it away to the Millions of Illegal Immigrants who are infiltrating our Country!”

Those are all messages Republicans will happily get behind. But of course, he also couldn’t resist straying from his core message in ways that betrayed his insecurities. Yesterday, he complained on Truth Social about MAUREEN DOWD’s humdinger of a Times column last week blasting him for whining.

Harris, meanwhile, heads to Georgia on Wednesday, her seventh visit to the red-leaning Peach State that Biden barely carried in 2020. She and running mate Minnesota Gov. TIM WALZ are planning a two-day bus tour through southern Georgia, culminating with a Thursday night rally in Savannah that Harris will headline solo.

Harris has her own issues as well. The clock is ticking on her promise to engage in her first sit-down interview by the end of the month, a high-stakes conversation that will make waves regardless of how it goes.

Already we’re hearing chatter about who she will choose to conduct the interview: a known friendly face who she can expect will take it easy on her? Or, in a bid to erase memories of her rocky LESTER HOLT interview in 2021, a member of a vaunted legacy media outlet who will give her a tougher grilling? Place your bets. We should find out in days.

 
WHAT'S HAPPENING TODAY

On the Hill

The Senate and the House are out.

What we’re watching … Today’s most important congressional work is happening in Butler, Pa., where Trump was shot and nearly killed on July 13. Today at 2 p.m., members of the House’s Task Force on the Attempted Assassination of Donald J. Trump will tour the site of the shooting in Butler, Pa., followed by a presser led by Chairman MIKE KELLY (R-Pa.) and Ranking member JASON CROW (D-Colo.). The group, which was created in late July after a 416-0 vote and has subpoena authority, is tasked with investigating the security lapses leading up to the assassination attempt, and due to issue a final report before Dec. 13.

At the White House

Biden will receive the President’s Daily Brief in the morning.

Harris will have internal staff meetings and briefings.

On the trail

Trump will address the National Guard Association of the U.S. in Detroit. He’ll also go to Arlington National Cemetery to mark the third anniversary of the U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan, with family members of the killed U.S. troops, per Semafor’s Shelby Talcott.

 

CHECK OUT WHAT YOU MISSED IN CHICAGO!

On Thursday, POLITICO and Bayer convened four conversations at the CNN-POLITICO Grill at the DNC. The program featured Bayer’s Senior Vice President, Head of Crop Science and Sustainability Communications, Jessica Christiansen, as well as conversations with Rep. Bennie Thompson (D-MS), Rep. Nikki Budzinski (D-IL), and Sen. Debbie Stabenow (D-MI) about agriculture, food policy and how these issues will impact the November election. CATCH UP HERE.

 
 
PLAYBOOK READS

2024 WATCH

WEST ALLIS, WISCONSIN - JULY 23:  Democratic presidential candidate, U.S. Vice President Kamala Harris speaks to supporters during a campaign rally at West Allis Central High School on July 23, 2024 in West Allis, Wisconsin. Harris made her first campaign appearance as the party's presidential candidate, with an endorsement from President Biden.  (Photo by Jim Vondruska/Getty Images)

VP Kamala Harris was worried about Latino voters long before she became the presidential nominee. | Jim Vondruska/Getty Images

THE DECIDERS — The Harris campaign has offered Democrats a much-needed reset moment with Latino voters, especially the growing cohort of young, U.S.-born Hispanics who were seriously wavering on Biden, Adrian Carrasquillo captures in a POLITICO Magazine story this morning. But she still has plenty of work to do to convince many voters who didn’t know much about her until recently — and avoid Democrats’ margins shrinking any further.

Adrian reveals that Harris was worried about Latino voters long before she became the presidential nominee, convening a meeting earlier this year that led to focus groups studying the demographic. They found that younger Latinos felt deeply disconnected from Biden due to his age, which concerned them more than messaging about Trump’s policy threats. And Democrats worried about seriously falling off a cliff, especially with young Hispanic men. “The next phase for the campaign will be committing the financial resources needed to activate harder-to-reach younger Latino voters — much as the Biden campaign did in 2020.”

More top reads:

  • Getting the gang together: Harris’ team has done much more extensive outreach to House Democrats than Biden’s campaign ever did, seeking to get a wide range on board as surrogates, Axios’ Andrew Solender reports.

CONGRESS

SPENDING SHOWDOWN — With five weeks until government funding lapses, Senate Minority Leader MITCH McCONNELL is worried that House conservatives’ demand to add a bill trying to crack down on non-citizens voting in federal elections could complicated passing a continuing resolution to keep the government open, Axios’ Stef Kight and Juliegrace Brufke report. The issue has become a rallying cry on the right amid widespread election fraud lies and concerns about immigration. But the bill will never pass a Democratic-led Senate, and McConnell’s team is trying to get Republicans to let it go for fear of sparking a government shutdown, which is barely a month away.

JUDICIARY SQUARE

A selection of potatoes and vegetables are seen in a Kroger supermarket on October 14, 2022, in Atlanta, Georgia. - Economic prospects are becoming "more pessimistic" in the United States on growing worries of weaker demand, the Federal Reserve said in a report October 19, 2022, citing heightened inflation and rising interest rates. (Photo by Elijah Nouvelage / AFP) (Photo by ELIJAH NOUVELAGE/AFP via   Getty Images)

The fate of the $25 billion Kroger-Albertsons supermarket merger will be in the hands of a Biden-appointed federal judge in Oregon. | Elijah Nouvelage/AFP via Getty Images

HAPPENING TODAY — One of the Biden FTC’s most significant antitrust moves will be put to the test as the trial begins for the agency to try to block the Kroger-Albertsons supermarket merger, Josh Sisco and Marcia Brown report this morning. The fate of the $25 billion deal between two of the country’s biggest such chains will be in the hands of a Biden-appointed federal judge in Oregon. She’s expected to rule on whether to grant a preliminary injunction sometime after the three-week trial wraps up.

The political timing of the trial is striking: The Biden administration is suing to stop a move that they argue would limit competition and drive grocery prices higher, just as Harris makes corporate price-gouging in the grocery industry a campaign-trail focus. But the meat of the trial will likely focus on economics and wonky details, along with emails the government says will show executives being aware that prices will rise. The supermarkets will argue the opposite: that preventing the merger would lead to worse outcomes for consumers, since they’ve committed to $1 billion in price cuts and other remedies. More from the AP

NOT BUDGING — “The federal courts are full of judges who could retire but won’t. Little can be done about it,” by NBC’s Lawrence Hurley and Elleiana Green

 

AMERICA AND THE WORLD

MIDDLE EAST LATEST — The region is on high alert after clashes between Israel and Hezbollah, though both sides appeared overnight to be seeking deescalation. Meanwhile, prospects for an Israel-Hamas cease-fire/hostage release deal continue to look tough for now, with Hamas saying yesterday that it wanted only to stick with the plan Biden proposed earlier this summer, per CNN’s Mohammed Tawfeeq, Nada Bashir and Ben Wedeman.

MORE POLITICS

BATTLE FOR THE HOUSE — “In key congressional race, Republicans criticize Democrat’s Central Valley real estate deal,” by the L.A. Times’ Laura Nelson: “At the urging of then-state Assemblyman ADAM GRAY, California gave Merced County $6.5 million [in 2018] to expand the [Google] self-driving testing program at the old [Air Force] base. … In 2022, a company in which Gray is a minority owner bought four apartment buildings on the former base … Gray’s representatives said that the investment shows his interest in providing affordable housing, and … he has yet to make money. Nonetheless, the real estate deal in rural Atwater, Calif., has come under scrutiny as Gray … fights to unseat first-term Rep. JOHN DUARTE.”

POLICY CORNER

Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts is seen in the House chamber at the U.S. Capitol.

Even if Kamala Harris keeps the White House in Democratic hands, a huge portion of Joe Biden’s policy legacy is at risk of getting overturned in the courts. | Francis Chung/POLITICO

REALITY CHECK — We’re only beginning to see the effects of the Supreme Court’s historic series of rulings kneecapping the administrative state, particularly the end of Chevron deference. Now, even if Harris keeps the White House in Democratic hands, a huge portion of Biden’s policy legacy is at risk of getting overturned in the courts, Marcia Brown reports this morning.

Already this summer, lower courts have stymied Biden’s actions banning non-compete employment agreements, protecting transgender people from health care discrimination and more. Rules on pollution, overtime pay, airline refunds and credit card late fees could be in the crosshairs next.

The upshot is that Biden’s legacy is more vulnerable to ideologically opposed jurists than any president’s during the 40 years of Chevron deference — and either Harris or Trump could find it harder to implement changes of their own, too. “Democrats worry that the rulings are creating a de facto conservative veto on what presidents can accomplish,” while Republicans say the change is a rightful return to how the branches of government should operate.

THE WHITE HOUSE

WHEN SILENCE SPEAKS VOLUMES — “Biden keeps low profile on vacation as Democrats aim to capitalize on DNC,” by WaPo’s Abbie Cheeseman in Santa Ynez Valley, California

BEYOND THE BELTWAY

HOT ON THE RIGHT — “How a Migrant Accused of Rape Was Freed and Charged With Rape Again,” by NYT’s Chelsia Rose Marcius, Maria Cramer and Wesley Parnell: “A failure of cooperation between New York City and federal authorities allowed DANIEL DAVON-BONILLA, a 24-year-old from Nicaragua, to slip out of the grasp of law enforcement.”

 

DON’T MISS OUR AI & TECH SUMMIT: Join POLITICO’s AI & Tech Summit for exclusive interviews and conversations with senior tech leaders, lawmakers, officials and stakeholders about where the rising energy around global competition — and the sense of potential around AI and restoring American tech knowhow — is driving tech policy and investment. REGISTER HERE.

 
 
PLAYBOOKERS

Ann McLane Kuster is going on offense against Maggie Goodlander.

Robert F. Kennedy Jr.’s Secret Service protection is now over.

Mike Johnson slammed Tim Walz in Minneapolis.

Kamala Harris’ wide-eyed reaction to a Chuck Schumer scolding is highly relatable.

IN MEMORIAM — “Phil Jones, former CBS News correspondent, dies at age 87,” CBS: “Jones was considered one of ‘Cronkite’s Kids.’ Soon after joining CBS, Jones won an Emmy for his coverage of the war in Vietnam. Jones was best known for reporting on the political battles in Washington. He started with Watergate, then served as White House correspondent during the Ford administration. Jones also covered the impeachment trial of then-President Bill Clinton.”

OUT AND ABOUT — Dream for America, which bills itself as a Gen Z, center-left alternative to Turning Point USA, hosted a reception Thursday during the Democratic National Convention at the Mercury Public Affairs office in Chicago. William He led a conversation with Amy McGrath, Mike Schmuhl and Cheri Bustos. Also SPOTTED: Eugene Vindman, Nick Roberts, Frederick Bell, Isaiah Martin, Joshua Martin, Ashwin Ramaswami, Christian Figueroa and Florida state Rep. Christine Hunschofsky.

FIRST IN PLAYBOOK — The Georgetown Institute of Politics and Public Service’s class of fellows for fall 2024 will be: former Rep. Rodney Davis (R-Ill.), now at the U.S. Chamber of Commerce; Trump White House alum Ashley Gunn; Biden campaign alum Alencia Johnson; MSNBC host and former Harris adviser Symone Sanders-Townsend; Justice Democrats alum Waleed Shahid; and Nikki Haley alum Rick Wiley.

WHITE HOUSE ARRIVAL LOUNGE — Nicola Wagner is now deputy director for employee engagement and leadership development in the Office of Management and Administration at the White House. She previously was deputy White House liaison at the Labor Department.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY: Bob Barnett … USA Today’s David Jackson Miriam Elder … State’s Tiffany Cox and Kirk Anderson ... The New Republic’s Grace SegersGara LaMarche … Oracle’s Josh Pitcock … former DHS Secretary Tom Ridge of Ridge Global … Eddie Vale of New Paradigm Agency … Jennifer Sherman of Reservoir Communications Group … Nicole Gaudiano … POLITICO’s Jordan Muller … Bloomberg Government’s Maeve SheeheyIlyse Hogue Patrick Dorton of Rational 360 … CAP Action Fund’s Navin NayakRebekah HoshikoLindsey Curnutte Satyam KhannaStephen DubnerKiran ChetryArthur MacMillan ... Bill Whitaker … NBC’s Savannah Sellers and Sophia MalteseMyles Miller Julian Epstein Russell Adam of the Herald Group … Quint Forgey Hunter Wilson of Plus Communications … Jordan Wong of Rep. Katie Porter’s (D-Calif.) office … Eric Fehrnstrom Justin DillonJim Harris of Bain … Nick Martin of Rep. Suzan DelBene’s (D-Wash.) office … Payton Fuller of Sen. Steve Daines’ (R-Mont.) office … Aaron Czarnopys

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